tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-761784460667108854.post837914100430468015..comments2023-11-09T03:33:41.728-05:00Comments on Jenny and Kelly Read Books: No More Books Without Quotation Marks...EVER! /mommie dearestkellyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07832228313612518377noreply@blogger.comBlogger18125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-761784460667108854.post-18204882098496900912017-02-23T02:07:00.871-05:002017-02-23T02:07:00.871-05:00Perhaps, you are right saying that there are diffe...Perhaps, you are right saying that there are different punctuation conventions in different parts of the world. However, do not forget about those vital <a href="http://edit-it.org/blog/15-punctuation-marks-you-probably-dont-know" rel="nofollow">15 punctuation marks you probably dont know</a>.<br />Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11228928769711044739noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-761784460667108854.post-70328874202851668352015-07-05T09:54:35.045-04:002015-07-05T09:54:35.045-04:00Hi
My Name is Saul, I am from Cardiff (United Kin...Hi <br />My Name is Saul, I am from Cardiff (United Kingdom). I am thinking of writing a book very soon. I have just finished reading Andre Agassi autobiography, "OPEN". I have noticed that the book has no speech marks throughout the book. But I must say I thought that the story/read is very, very good. I must hasten to add that the exclusion of quotation marks does not detract from a good story.<br /><br />This in turn has poised a dilemma for me! As I am writing my first book - it would be a hell of a lot easier to write it without the use of speech marks. " As long as the story it good". Also when reading, "Grammar Rules", by Craig Shrives. He seems to suggest as long as the writing/dialogue is fully understandable and does not detract from the story- then this might be alright to do.<br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-761784460667108854.post-39524432602941962122013-03-19T22:22:41.811-04:002013-03-19T22:22:41.811-04:00Yes, that's the exact answer I am looking for....Yes, that's the exact answer I am looking for...I need trusted readers to give me the green light. And then, I need to listen to more aBooks! <br /><br />Jennyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13205737257301534685noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-761784460667108854.post-9023415219575503722013-03-18T11:38:41.688-04:002013-03-18T11:38:41.688-04:00So... The question is: Does the satisfaction/cold ...So... The question is: Does the satisfaction/cold comfort of knowing that those authors won't get your hard-earned cash outweigh the potential negative of missing out on good books?<br /><br />It seems like your answer is "Yes."<br /><br />To me, it seems like you, personally, have the potential to suffer more negative impact than the authors do. But, you know, you'll have your indignation to keep you warm. :) <br /><br />In all seriousness, when this topic makes your *blood boil*, then it's probably best for you to avoid these books. Why read something that's just pissing you off?! <br /><br />Until... 15 different trusted readers you know tell you to read a certain quotation mark-less book and why. And, by the time a book has gotten *that* much praise, you'll be an empty-nester, so you can listen to the aBook and avoid the issue entirely! Heh.kellyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07832228313612518377noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-761784460667108854.post-13483518727127858202013-03-16T17:57:05.930-04:002013-03-16T17:57:05.930-04:00It's months later, and I keep thinking about w...It's months later, and I keep thinking about what Roof Beam Reader said above, that I'm going to be missing a lot of good books. <br /><br />But of course I'd like to think of it the other way: those writers are going to be missing a very good reader. Not only a person who reads widely and prolifically, but a person who SPENDS a lot of money every year on books. I talk about books, recommend them to friends and family members. I'm one of a dying breed. That also seems worth considering. Jennyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13205737257301534685noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-761784460667108854.post-17928739001199030772013-02-09T12:33:02.215-05:002013-02-09T12:33:02.215-05:00It's not look I could read all the books in th...It's not look I could read all the books in the world anyway. Either way I'm going to miss out on a lot of good books. At least this way I'll be reading books that don't piss me off right out of the gate. <br /><br />I never liked Hemingway or McCarthy, maybe that's one of the reasons why. That and they don't bother writing interesting women. Jennyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13205737257301534685noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-761784460667108854.post-14762553726245475002013-02-07T20:33:21.983-05:002013-02-07T20:33:21.983-05:00We have both read Blindness and we did love it... ...We have both read <i>Blindness</i> and we did love it... and that's what I was pointing out to Jenny. But... in the end... I think if someone raved about a book long enough and said, "Jenny, there's no quotation marks, but this one is *worth it*, she would consider it. <br /><br />The *issue* is with books that just seem to be... leaving out the quotation marks with absolutely no good reason. Like... *everything* else is the same, but the marks are missing? Even Cormac McCarthy says that in the interview that I linked to above -- if you're going to leave out the marks, you'd better be prepared to help your reader figure out what is going on in some other way. From the sound of it, <i>The Round House</i> did *not* do that, resulting in Jenny's frustration.kellyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07832228313612518377noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-761784460667108854.post-70474908101029530882013-02-07T20:29:44.192-05:002013-02-07T20:29:44.192-05:00I have heard that from many, many people, Adam, bu...I have heard that from many, many people, Adam, but... I just can't stomach the story. I know what it's all about and I know what I can handle and... that one is over the line for me. Jenny has read it (and loved it) *and* she knows me and she agrees. So I'm going to have to stick with my plan.kellyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07832228313612518377noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-761784460667108854.post-1174199270358137542013-02-07T19:22:56.651-05:002013-02-07T19:22:56.651-05:00The Road was BRILLIANT. I'm saddened to hear ...The Road was BRILLIANT. I'm saddened to hear that you all won't be giving it a try. :(Roof Beam Readerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06792884580084363046noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-761784460667108854.post-37000124041909542012013-02-07T19:22:00.924-05:002013-02-07T19:22:00.924-05:00Ah, yes, Blindness, too! Ah, yes, Blindness, too! Roof Beam Readerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06792884580084363046noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-761784460667108854.post-48980893594652394182013-02-07T19:21:23.127-05:002013-02-07T19:21:23.127-05:00Uh oh. You're going to miss out on a lot of go...Uh oh. You're going to miss out on a lot of good books, if you stick to that rule. =/ <br /><br />(Hemingway does it quite a bit, as does Cormac McCarthy.. those are just off the top of my head. I love Louise Erdrich, too). Roof Beam Readerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06792884580084363046noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-761784460667108854.post-68596879047427709472013-01-08T15:24:54.095-05:002013-01-08T15:24:54.095-05:00Interesting. When I recently read "Väldigt Sä...Interesting. When I recently read "Väldigt Sällan fin" by Sami Said (a minor 2012 hit in Sweden that I doubt will ever get translated into English) I actually made a mental note of how the lack of quotation marks (or em dashes) contributed to a highly personal, subjective tone. In a good way. So I guess I agree with your pal that in certain books, "eschewing them emphasizes the subjective, private nature of the narrative". Maybe the reason it worked for me in this book is that the narrator defines himself strongly as an outsider, although not necessarily an unreliable one.Pellehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01255423421876579064noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-761784460667108854.post-55901652145098412142013-01-07T19:24:20.866-05:002013-01-07T19:24:20.866-05:00Also, because of all my ranting on this, several p...Also, because of all my ranting on this, several people sent me this article today. Haha!<br /><br />http://www.theonion.com/articles/4-copy-editors-killed-in-ongoing-ap-style-chicago,30806/?ref=auto?ref=autoJennyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13205737257301534685noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-761784460667108854.post-89742295290886699852013-01-07T19:21:25.180-05:002013-01-07T19:21:25.180-05:00Also, it's funny that you say you wrote too lo...Also, it's funny that you say you wrote too long. I checked my post because I was sort of idly curious about how long it was. A THOUSAND WORDS, or 4 double spaced pages. Oh boy. Who could believe I'd have so much to say? As previously discussed, it is so much easier to write about things you hate!Jennyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13205737257301534685noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-761784460667108854.post-40605033570778323862013-01-07T19:20:03.185-05:002013-01-07T19:20:03.185-05:00I was actually going to talk about Joyce, because ...I was actually going to talk about Joyce, because it doesn't shock me at all that people would trace this back to him. He uses the em dash/standard Irish punctuation; however, the famous last chapter of Ulysses does not use ANY punctuation. It's the stream-of-conscious thoughts of Molly Bloom. <br /><br />To parse this down, I think what I'd say about Blindness is that he was breaking *so many* punctuation rules that the lack of quotation marks was just part of an entire stylistic choice that obviously had way more going on. Same thing with James Joyce---and in that case, EVERY SINGLE chapter of Ulysses experimented in some way with form or style. It's not something he did *all the time*! <br /><br />Yes, I hated Cold Mountain. I don't specifically remember it being quotation mark-less. But that might have been my first encounter with it, and I do actually remember it being a solitary, lonely book. How much talking did people actually do to each other in that book? That's a rhetorical question, of course, because I'd never reread it to find out. THE ENDING was a huge problem for me. I believe I might have actually thrown that one across the room when I finished it. Heh. <br /><br />You'll notice that I left myself a little wiggle room up above. No more BUYING books with no quotation marks, but if it ends up in the Tournament of Books, or if a trusted friend like you were to tell me it would be worth it...I'd just borrow it from the library. Hah!<br /><br />And your last paragraph in comment 2 is key---if you're going to do all the standard things that you'd do with quotation marks (the indenting, the comma, etc), then it just seems silly to omit it. If, LIKE JOYCE or SARAMAGO, going with a whole other stylistic thing IN EVERY WAY, then I suppose I could give it a chance. <br />Jennyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13205737257301534685noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-761784460667108854.post-10797073585952382382013-01-07T18:29:30.581-05:002013-01-07T18:29:30.581-05:00Ooof.... one more thing. If you implement this new...Ooof.... one more thing. If you implement this new policy, in answer to your final question, "Will I really be missing anything?" Well, you would have missed <i>Blindness</i>, right?<br />kellyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07832228313612518377noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-761784460667108854.post-60682131616633509152013-01-07T18:27:00.308-05:002013-01-07T18:27:00.308-05:00[Comment Part 2 of 2]
Everyone is pinning this fa...[Comment Part 2 of 2]<br /><br />Everyone is pinning this fad on Cormac McCarthy, so I looked into this a bit. I have never read (nor will I read) <i>The Road</i>, but I found a link to <a href="http://www.oprah.com/oprahsbookclub/Cormac-McCarthy-on-James-Joyce-and-Punctuation-Video" rel="nofollow">this interview</a> with him where he traces this quotation mark-less thing back to (Breathe. Stay calm.) ... your pal James Joyce. (The outrage! Okay. Calm down and hear me out...) *However*, I would argue that Joyce used the em dash which is *something* that tells you that it's a quotation, which you covered above. But CM says more (try to take a deep breath here before the rage takes over...) because he talks about wanting to minimize visual distraction in the book *but* (Breathe! Breathe!) the most important part of this interview comes in the last 10 seconds, when he says: "But you really have to be aware that there are no quotation marks to guide people and write in such a way that there's not confusion about who's speaking." (It's short -- watch it.)<br /><br />Soooo... I think that this, above all else, is the key: *If* an author is going to make this choice, for whatever reason, then they are required to write in such a way that the lack of quotation marks is not a distraction/source of confusion. From what you showed me in <i>The Round House</i>, it seems like the book was written in exactly the same way as it would be <i>with</i> quotation marks, with the marks just... gone. And you can't do that.kellyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07832228313612518377noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-761784460667108854.post-23985939991848474162013-01-07T18:24:00.579-05:002013-01-07T18:24:00.579-05:00[Comment Part 1 of 2: I wrote too much.]
I haven&...[Comment Part 1 of 2: I wrote too much.]<br /><br />I haven't really said much about this because I keep thinking, "Have I even read a book with no quotation marks?" So I went digging around on the All Knowing Internet to get more information about this "no quotation mark" situation and... I found some stuff. That's right, you've sucked me in. :)<br /><br />Ok... so when you were here, we discussed the book <i>Blindness</i> which is a book that we have both read and appreciated. And I mentioned that I had forgotten that that book doesn't have any character names and is basically a wall of words. I just flipped through it today and... no quotation marks, either! But... that didn't bother you, right? In fact, we actually discussed it a bit in 2011 right <a href="http://jennyandkellyreadbooks.blogspot.com/2011/10/jennys-book-10-seeing.html" rel="nofollow">here</a>. Two interesting notes: 1. <i>You</i> did not say that the lack of punctuation drove you crazy and 2. <i>I</i> actually said that that would "normally drive me batshit." However, perhaps this is a case, like you mention with <i>Open City</i>, where the technique was actually pretty effective -- it sort of also made the reader "blind," if that makes sense. I don't remember ever feeling confused while reading that book about who said what and when. That book was also incredibly written. I think he probably could have thrown in gibberish words and I would have stuck with it.<br /><br />(In that little discussion, you also counted it, along with <i>The Road</i> as one of the most harrowing books that you've ever read... maybe those books were so harrowing because they lacked quotation marks? Har. Har. Moving on...)<br /><br /><i>Cold Mountain</i> also gets mentioned as a quotation mark-less wonder, so I checked into this. What's weird about this book is that sometimes it uses straight-up zero quotation marks and sometimes it uses the em dash. So it's inconsistent. Ugh. I can't remember why I did not like that book, but I didn't. The characters? The story? Does he walk a long way and then die before he gets there or some shit? I honestly cannot remember. Maybe there was residual no-quotation-marks resentment going on. I don't think you liked that book, either -- do you remember the quotation mark-less situation?<br /><br />So that's two books I've read with no quotation marks that... I didn't really notice when they were missing. One book I liked (well, appreciated), the other I didn't. Don't really remember ever thinking much about the missing punctuation at the time of reading -- did you?<br /><br />kellyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07832228313612518377noreply@blogger.com